Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi (Talk No. 21 - 23)

31st January, 1935 

Talk 21.

 Mr. Ellappa Chettiar, a member of the Legislative Council of Madras Presidency and an influential Hindu, asked: “Why is it said that the knowledge born of hearing is not firm, whereas that born of contemplation is firm?”

M.: On the other hand it is said that hearsay knowledge (paroksha) is not firm, whereas that born of one’s own realisation (aparoksha) is firm. It is also said that hearing helps the intellectual understanding of the Truth, that meditation makes the understanding clear, and finally that contemplation brings about realisation of the Truth. Furthermore, they say also that all such knowledge is not firm and that it is firm only when it is as clear and intimate as a gooseberry in the hollow of one’s palm. There are those who affirm that hearing alone will suffice, because a competent person who had already, perhaps in previous incarnations, qualified himself, realises and abides in peace as soon as he hears the Truth told him only once, whereas the person not so qualified must pass through the stages prescribed above, before falling into samadhi.  

Talk 22.

Mrs. Piggott returned from Madras for a further visit. She asked questions relating to diet regulation. 

D.: What diet is prescribed for a sadhak (one who is engaged in spiritual practices)?

M.: Satvic food in limited quantities. 

D.: What is satvic food? 

M.: Bread, fruits, vegetables, milk, etc. 

D.: Some people take fish in North India. May it be done? No answer was made by the Maharshi.

 D.: We Europeans are accustomed to a particular diet; change of diet affects health and weakens the mind. Is it not necessary to keep up physical health? 

M.: Quite necessary. The weaker the body the stronger the mind grows. 

D.: In the absence of our usual diet our health suffers and the mind loses strength.

 M.: What do you mean by strength of mind? 

D.: The power to eliminate worldly attachment. 

M.: The quality of food influences the mind. The mind feeds on the food consumed.

D.: Really! How can the Europeans adjust themselves to satvic food only? 

M.: (Pointing to Mr. Evans-Wentz) You have been taking our food. Do you feel uncomfortable on that account? 

Mr. Evans-Wentz: No. Because I am accustomed to it. 

D.: What about those not so accustomed? 

M.: Habit is only adjustment to the environment. It is the mind that matters. The fact is that the mind has been trained to think certain foods tasty and good. The food material is to be had both in vegetarian and non-vegetarian diet equally well. But the mind desires such food as it is accustomed to and considers tasty. 

D.: Are there restrictions for the realised man in a similar manner? 

M.: No. He is steady and not influenced by the food he takes. 

D.: Is it not killing life to prepare meat diet? 

M.: Ahimsa stands foremost in the code of discipline for the yogis. 

D.: Even plants have life. 

M.: So too the slabs you sit on! 

D.: May we gradually get ourselves accustomed to vegetarian food? 

M.: Yes. That is the way.

 2nd February, 1935 

Talk 23. 

Mr. Evans-Wentz continued another day: “May one have more than one spiritual master?” 

M.: Who is a Master? He is the Self after all. According to the stages of the development of the mind the Self manifests as the Master externally. The famous ancient saint Avadhuta said that he had more than 24 Masters. The Master is one from whom one learns anything. The Guru may be sometimes inanimate also, as in the case of Avadhuta. God, Guru and the Self are identical. A spiritual-minded man thinks that God is all-pervading and takes God for his Guru. Later, God brings him in contact with a personal Guru and the man recognises him as all in all. Lastly the same man is made by the grace of the Master to feel that his Self is the Reality and nothing else. Thus he finds that the Self is the Master. 

D.: Does Sri Bhagavan initiate his disciples? 

Maharshi kept silent. Thereafter one of the devotees took it upon himself to answer, saying, “Maharshi does not see anyone as outside his Self. So there are no disciples for him. His Grace is all-pervading and He communicates his Grace to any deserving individual in silence.” 

D.: How does book-lore help in Self-Realisation? 

A.: Only so far as to make one spiritually-minded.

 D.: How far does intellect help? 

A.: Only so far as to make one sink the intellect in the ego, and the ego in the Self.

Author : Sri Munagala S. Venkataramiah

Read by Miss Darlene Delisi, Canada